Is Kenneth Copeland Confused About Senator Grassley’s Request? Comments By Ethics Speaker Chuck Gallagher

kennethcopeland.jpg

In a closed circuit broadcast to some 1,000 ministers and guests, Kenneth Copeland stated his position about his response to the requests for financial information about his ministry. Copeland stated:

“You render unto the government what belongs to the government. And you render unto God what belongs to God,” he said, according to the newspaper. “You can go get a subpoena, and I won’t give it to you,” Mr. Copeland continues. “It’s not yours, it’s God’s and you’re not going to get it and that’s something I’ll go to prison over. So, just get over it.”

Supposedly, the Copeland ministries has sent some of the information Grassley requested – but not all.

I must admit, I’m confused. Senator Grassley’s requests from six mega-ministries – like the one headed by Kenneth Copeland – is a request for financial information related to the ministries tax exempt status. Grassley is asking – Are you in compliance?

Again, maybe I’m missing it, but if the answer to the question is – Yes – we are in compliance with the laws of man that govern tax exemption – then Kenneth Copeland ministries should have no problem. Simple!

So what’s he talking about? It seems like Copeland, in his comments, is puffing out his chest and speaking double speak. First he says, “You render unto the government what belongs to the government. And you render unto God what belongs to God.” O.K., I get that. The government through laws grants qualifying ministries tax exempt status. In order to retain that you must comply with the law. So Kenneth Copeland’s first sentence makes sense. Give Grassley the subject of his request. It’s simple – comply and follow your own beliefs.

But no. Kenneth Copeland then confuses the who issue – taking a position that a ministry is above the law of man – by saying, “It’s not yours, it’s God’s and you’re not going to get it and that’s something I’ll go to prison over. So, just get over it.” What are you saying? Copeland says it’s God’s not yours.

Is he saying that ministry issues are above the law?

Is he saying that it’s a God given right to be tax exempt?

Why is he contradicting himself through his own comments?

What is he trying to hide?

As an ethics speaker (www.chuckgallagher.com) her in Texas, I know many people who support and believe in the good that the Kenneth Copeland ministries perform both locally and worldwide. I, personally, have great respect for Kenneth Copeland ministries. That said, there is far more power in truth and honesty than is found in rebellion and conflict. For God’s sake – Kenneth – comply and show the transparent truth of your ministry.

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26 Responses to Is Kenneth Copeland Confused About Senator Grassley’s Request? Comments By Ethics Speaker Chuck Gallagher

  1. Joh says:

    How can you possibly put those two words..”ethics” and “kenneth copeland” in the same phrase??and to top it off your a copeland supporter and say you teach ethics?? that makes absolutely no sense… Kenneth and Gloria Copeland/Creflo Dollar/Benny Hinn etc are all cast from the same mold and Kenneth Copeland is the kingpin…all frauds/charlatans/conpersons of the highest order

  2. Who said I was a supporter? I respect Copeland, anyone who built a business like his deserves a level of respect – not necessarily the ministry, but the business. It’s up to Copeland to determine if he is acting in an ethical manner. The one true example in the ministry is Billy Graham who lived what he preached.

  3. Joh says:

    Billy Graham in fact was the godfather of this kind of “preaching” folks like Oral Roberts(Copelands mentor) just capitalised on it

  4. Joh says:

    In reply to your response to what i wrote…you say”I respect Copeland, anyone who built a business like his deserves a level of respect”… once again i question the Ethics of such a comment?? how can one ethically respect a person who has fraudulently taken millions of dollars from the poor /elderly/infirmed in our society??? surely ethics would say this person is a fraud and has no place in an ethical decent society?

  5. Richard says:

    Joh wrote, “… i (sic) question the Ethics (sic) of such a comment?? how (sic) can one ethically respect a person who has fraudulently taken millions of dollars from the poor/elderly/infirmed in our society??? surely (sic) ethics would say this person is a fraud and has no place in an ethical (sic) decent society? (sic)” First, what is your evidence that he has fraudulently taken millions of dollars from those you have described? I have followed him for about 30 years and the thing that I have noticed is that he does not ask for money. So, how do you resolve this factual piece of information with your statement that he “has taken millions” from the poor/elderly/infirmed. etc? Second, could it be that you just don’t like him and are thus claiming that he is “taking” money from the poor? Please enlighten all of us readers.

  6. Joh says:

    My Evidence Richard is that he promises what he cannot give… IE Health/ Wealth etc its quite simple in a world of reality :) show me 100 people that have received his 100 fold promise? Show me 100 people that Kenneth Personally has Made well or healed of any terminal illness as he often spouts in his “sermons”
    And what was that about not asking for money?? how about his $20million Cessna Citation?? and just because he “begs” by stealth doesnt forgive what he does..

  7. dreamer77 says:

    Good thoughts Chuck. I believe that if there is an investigation to be done, it should be done by the IRS as it would be with the majority of other private organizations. These 6 private religious organizations should have to follow the same procedural codes as others. Senator Grassley should not be given the authority to call for such investigations at his every whim.

  8. Rich Mueller M.B.A. says:

    Really enjoying the pooled ignorance on this blog.

    I’m not a financial supporter of any of these ministries and never have been. However, I know when something is a total crock. Go back and do another look at the Copeland’s position. The Copelands are not saying that they are “above the law” nor are they “hiding” anything. They are simply requiring the good senator to go through the appropriate channels to get his information. Further, they are requiring that he stay in adherence to the very laws that he helped formulate. Such information is readily available to Grassley, but if he backs off of his position he will have a lot of egg on his face.

    The stringent and rigorous audit procedures of the IRS are such that if Copland et. al. were trying to “hide” anything, they would not doubt would have been caught years ago. I have assisted in many audits in the past and know exactly how the process works. If the IRS can’t find anything, neither will Grassley and friends.

    Grassley is a Baptist and a ranking Free Mason. Copeland is a word of faither…get a clue folks. Further, Billy Graham (who we all love) has a mansion and private aircraft and a multi million dollar estate. Further, Graham has raised multiplied MILLIONS of dollars through making pleas. Why doesn’t Grassley and his cronies go after Billy? Wouldn’t look good to the Baptists for sure.

    In closing, if you don’t want to give to any of these ministries that is fine. Go ahead and give to the Billy Graham multi million dollar organization instead. Im sure they will be happy to take it…no doubt about it.

    Get a clue folks

    Rich

  9. Rich…I’m glad the “pooled ignorance” provides some joy.

    Having assisted on many audits then you, too, must know that Senator Grassley has no obligation to use the IRS to conduct a Senate inquiry. In fact, considering the committee he sits on – his committee has some oversight over the IRS. And, with your knowledge, you surely know that you, I or anyone else, including Copeland, can be compelled to provide the data requested.

    Hence, I still wonder why Copeland, faced with the fact that he can be compelled to give up the data, is still resisting. If it is principle – then why has he all of a sudden found this principle that he had not thought of in 2000 when he did comply with the same type of request?

    The difference between Copeland and Graham – both of whom as ministers have raised millions – is that Copeland elects to flaunt his ministries wealth. When you shine the spotlight on yourself, you have to accept the consequences.

    Of course comments are welcome.

  10. Rich Mueller M.B.A. says:

    Hello Chuck,

    Thanks for the reply.

    Sorry, Grassley may simply have forgotten he is no longer chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, but only the ranking minority (Republican) member. As such, he cannot himself compel any person — minister or layperson — to turn over to him detailed financial information of their income or expenses to peruse at his leisure and share with whomever he might like.

    Further, flaunting his (Copeland’s) wealth would be one thing, but media exploitation is quite something else. Regardless, if Grassley et al is going to go after one, he needs to go after ALL. Not just 6 word of faithers. I am a Baptist so I speak from a Baptist position and have no theological agenda on the matter.

    Demanding names and addresses of donors is sensitive information. As such, the supoena process is the best route to insure confidentiality. I stand by that position. Granted, Copeland needs to comply with a supoena or will be held in contempt….not too smart. However, I think if a supoena comes in, he will yield. Going the supoena route would be my recommendation. That way Grassley can get his info which in reality IS ALREADY AVAILABLE pursuant to the church tax inquiry process.

    I guess what irks me is the exploitation agenda. I think we need to pick on the Baptists…lol.

    This will be interesting to watch as a precedent is being set.

    Thanks for your reply,

    Rich

  11. Rich…I agree whole heartedly. Grassley should supoena and get this over with. If Copeland is guilty of violating the law…then deal with that issue. The longer Grassley let’s this fester the more it appears to have more than just a political overtone.

    I suspect Joyce Meyer will walk away without any issues. Copeland, by his choices, is increasing the likelihood that there will be a negative outcome for Copeland. Choices and Consequences.

    Guess we’ll have to wait and see.

    CG

  12. brandon says:

    What is the government’s in this is the financial information, which was provided. What is God’s are the donor and speaker lists – that’s the part where he has dug in his heels. They didn’t go after that part in 2000.

    And then there’s the heavy way the senator began. Press conference to kick it off, CNN commentary about it, – oh, Joyce Meyer’s 23K or whatever commode, him saying that was a lot of money going down the toilet. (actually the item is a piece of furniture) She has comment on that on her website in the audit information section, apologizing that the excessive amount of the piece got by her in a large order of furniture for the new facility. Since that publicly divulged tidbit early days in this has now gone around the world, I’d say there was potential for that being more than an embarrassment, wouldn’t you?

    That incident alone demonstrated what one was to expect in the lovely days ahead. It had barely begun at that point. hey, he netted something there. Bravo. And maybe more to come. Good. Such should be brought to bear, but not before the world in such a tabloid way. The IRS language speaks against leaks of this sort during an investigation into a church. Wouldn’t that be entirely attractive to you being their shoes seeing that kind of thing go on?

    As for Copeland’s resistance, the donor and speaker records. There’s a separation here between what he is providing and what he is objecting to. That difference is there and needs to be noted, I think. And hey, some people just don’t take an arm twisting as readily as others. What about Creflo Dollar? He has divied in zero, zed plus some zilch thrown in, at this writing best I know. Copeland has done more than that. Are you sure you’re not picking on him, Mr. Gallagher? (naaa, I don’t really thing so, but … quite a few articles on this …)

  13. brandon says:

    hmm … I was trying to close a parenthesis at the end there – guess I hit something extra to get that smiley face

  14. Gosh…Brandon I thought you meant to have that there!

    Actually, no I am not picking on Copeland. It just seems that more people are open to the conversation around him than Dollar. For some reason the Dollar folks don’t seem to be interested. Creflo said no – his followers said fine – and that seems to be that.

    Guess Copeland has a more interested following.

    Love the smiley face, by the way…it adds something.

  15. Deborah Mulholand says:

    Why should Kenneth Copeland Ministries or any other Pastor give the IRS every name in their private donor list?

    I can understand this if you were donating to a political party, but even this i nformation is none of the IRS or anyone’s business.

    People will stop donating to churches if their names are exposed to the public. This is insane.

    Senator Grassley rides around in private jets, as do all ministers of the gospel who minister worldwide, as do all corporate CEOs.

    Senator Grassley needs to get off his high horse. The First Amendment protects the free speech of pastors, ditch diggers, telephone operators and secretaries.

    Let’s get rid of the IRS! The Federal FairTax is just the ticket!

  16. Camichy says:

    Deborah – GREAT comments – I have to agree with you. Grassley does need to use the proper avenues to investigate these organizations if he DOES find it NECESSARY. However, it does NOT look good on his part that ALL 6 of the organizations are of the same denomination. And now Christian leaders ACROSS denominational lines are stepping in line behind Copeland in support.

  17. Rich Mueller M.B.A. says:

    Deborah

    Couldn’t have said it better myself…Grassley is full of it as are his crownies who have gotten in his ear. I would tell Grassly to blow it out of his nose and MAKE him supoena.

    I liked the whistle blowing ex employee interview where they were allegedly “exposing” the Copelands. Give me a break! My favorite whistle blower was the one who had a full body bag and black hood on talking like some weird warped little creature from the Lord of the Rings. How asinine can you get???

    The sorry thing is that the media knows good and well that what they are doing is a total crock. Worse yet we have the joker at Charisma magazine and his commentary on the matter….comparing the Copelands with Enron.

    Better yet, now we have all of the silly little christians who don’t biblically tithe are hopping on the band wagon saying that God is “punishing” Kenneth Copeland. How stupid.

    Thank God that we have people in the Church who know what this is and where it is coming from. Grassley will fail…no doubt about it.

    –Rich

  18. Tish says:

    I am a Partner with Kenneth Copeland Ministries and having been exposed to the ministry for approximately 30 years. I have found the Copelands to be honest, consistant and to always have integrity. I speak from the experience of having listened and still listen to their teachings on a daily basis.

    I do not know all the laws of the IRS so I can’t comment on that, but I can bring to light the longevity of their ministry. It would be difficult to be in ministry for 40 years and still be going strong if it wasn’t from God. They’ve never begged for money or even ask for it. They never speak bad about other ministries.

    I keep reading that it’s about whether or not they are abiding by the law, yet they’ve been judged guilty without evidence. The quote you have used Mr. Gullagher is completely out of context. The media has taken that one little exerpt and used it repeatedly to prove Kenneth Copeland’s rebellion. In reality, as Rich commented, it was about his doner’s list. He had made a promise to God that he would never sell it or make it public. He gave the financial information but he will guard the names of his doners. Why would they be necessary to Mr. Grassley? To me that signifies a potential witch hunt. Again, I do not know the laws where that is concerned so correct me if I am wrong. As to their cooperation, if you visit their website you will see all the letters they have written. Here is one they have sent to the IRS inviting them to look at all the information:http://www.kcm.org/pdf/IRS%20Letter.pdf It is my understanding that if they were to just hand it over to Mr. Grassley there would be no expectation of privacy and that is where the problem lies. Just because something is private does not mean it is secretive or illegal. I would doubt, Mr. Gallagher, you’d let us log in to your email or bank account, but would that be because you have something to hide or just basic privacy?

    To me this is about religion, because there are many other religions with just as much money if not more. If Senator Grassley really honestly thought he was going to find something illegal going on he would have taken further action by now.

    (Joh, you say show you someone who’s gotten 100%…well I am that someone.)

  19. Rich Mueller M.B.A. says:

    Grassley is very dishonest and a total phony.

    He claims to be a tither but only contributed 2000 last year although his salary is 164,000 per year…do the math stupid.

    It is interesting how the critics of Copeland et al are NOT biblical tithers at all, yet claim to be. The 100 fold principle is biblical as it came out of the mouth of Jesus Christ Himself. Apparently these people are claiming that Jesus Christ is a liar. Sorry…Copeland did NOT write the Bible.

    Grassley also claims to be a Christian yet is a high ranking free mason…a complete dichotomy. This is indeed a religious issue (more like a demonic / satanic assault) no doubt about it. Copeland has not broken any law at all….period. If he did, he would have been busted by the IRS years ago as they are voluntarily audited all of the time to insure integrity.

    In sum, Copeland is requiring Grassley to abide by the law while Grassley is attempting to break and violate the very laws that he helped promulgate.

    All I have to say is “Mr. Grassley…you are NOT a Christian…repent and believe the Gospel.”

    –R

  20. trekker2 says:

    Rich – you’re cool. You’ve got eyes in your head, solid background information and a good logical brain being put to use in assimilating it. How refreshing. Thank you for taking the time to inject lucidity into this. Again, how refreshing amidst the “pool of ignorance,” to which is added no small amount of prejudice. But, of course, they go together. You might be a wee bit nicer, but thank you sincerely.

  21. Rich Mueller M.B.A. says:

    Trekker. Thanks for the comments. You are correct. Nice is needed on my end. :-D

  22. Rich Mueller M.B.A. says:

    Below is the track record of Senator Grassley’s main and paramount information source. Thought is was very interesting that a Senator would take his info from such a bogus source.

    See below:

    An August 3, 2006, Dallas Observer cover story titled “The Cult of Ole” showed that much of ABC’s and Trinity’s evidence had been edited out of context or distorted. Anthony never admitted wrongdoing, but one of his undercover detectives was stunned to discover his boss had lied about the accuracy of the evidence log Trinity had kept.

    Anthony and the Trinity Foundation had not responded to a request for comment by press time.

  23. Deborah Mulholand says:

    It is my personal opinion that the IRS and the Income Tax are Unconstitutional.

    If you look at the Declaration of Independence and read letters written by our Founding Fathers, you will understand that any law that is made that goes against the Bible is immoral, illegal, and Unconstitutional because it goes against God’s law.

    Any tax over 10% is immoral because God only asks for 10% tithe. Most of our senators are treading on thin ice when it comes to God’s judgment. They are treating Americans as slaves, and it’s getting to the point that Rick Santelli is right, it’s time for another Boston Tea Party.

    I’ve known the Copelands for years. They take offerings, but they send out their monthly magazines no matter whether you donate or not. They also don’t beg for money on the air like other broadcasts do.

    I have great respect for the Copelands, and would never trust the government with private donor lists.

    Just look at how the Huffington post has put driving directions to the homes of private political donors. That is asinine!

    President John Adams would be reminding people that if they don’t have a decent respect for God, they can expect Hell instead of Heaven.

    Our Founding Fathers quoted from the scripture one-third of the time! Our nation has become a heathen nation, when we started out as a Christian nation.

    We need the FairTax. The IRS has worn out their welcome.

  24. STEVEM says:

    Well Mr Galllagher

    After all the huffing and puffing by Grassley looks like egg on Grassley’s face and yours too huh ?

  25. Graham says:

    I am an registered with a professional accounting governing body and also a pentecostal Christian so my understanding is that you [Chuck} are confusing the ethics in question. This ministry complies with state and federal tax laws – an IRS audit has been requested so unless proved otherwise I make this assumption – it also complies with audit and GAAP standards for financial accountability reporting. So complying with vague requests by some senator on a narrowly defined witchhunt of faith based churches is no indicator of this organisation’s ethics or accountability.
    Where I believe confusion reigns in these issues is that KCM is NOT a publicly accountable organisation like the Red Cross. It has targeted donor activity and the donors buy into the vision of the Copelands. They don’t care what their salaries or perks are, as long as the vision is accomplished. So in the absence of tax fraud, there is no other fraud perpetrated against donors who endorse the founders of this minsitry by the very fact that they give! Politicians like Grassey somehow think that the donors are ignorant and need protection. Partly this will be his world view – that faith based christians are are a little simple – and partly supported by the shout from other denominations who quite simply believe that ministers of the gospel should not be extravagant and that any form of prosperity equates to a love of money. This is opinion but it adds fuel to the fire of politicians who really cannot handle the fact that mega churches who influence the morals of millions, may actually have funds to excercise their influence. They feel that all money and power should be in secular institutions.

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